[LiteraCity 2016] An Interview with A Samad Said

(Author: LiteraCity; originally published in LiteraCity Festival 2016) 

With more than six decades of being involved in the writing scene, cities are his playground. Our fourth Malaysian National Laureate who are prefer to be called as “Bapak”, born in Durian Tunggal, Melaka and brought up in two different cities, Singapore and Kuala Lumpur. The interview was held at Masjid Negara, one of his most favourite spaces in the cities every time the call for prayer is called. In this interview, LiteraCity trails his fragments and memories growing in this two cities and how literature observes how the historical events unfold. 


A. Samad Said:
 There is a long poem written by Ahmad Kamal Abdullah. If I am not mistaken, the title is “Kuala Lumpur, Kuala Lumpur” and it was staged. So, to say that there are no (works talking about Kuala Lumpur), it might be a mistake. His poem was specifically written about Kuala Lumpur and it was made into a musical, danced to, and staged


LiteraCity:
 Is this the work that you choose that portrays Kuala Lumpur?


A. Samad Said:
 No, it does not mean that I chose it, I am only stating that works like these are in existence. I had the opportunity to watch and see it, where the song was composed another while the lyrics were taken from the poem. For Kuala Lumpur itself, I vaguely remember them but for cities like Johor Bahru, there are some works written, for example, by Arena Wati. He wrote short stories depicting Johor Bharu, as per its title (Johor Baru).

For Kuala Lumpur, perhaps Abdullah Hussain’s Kuala Lumpur Kita Punya (1965). There is a background story to why this work was written. Back then, my friends wanted to start a book business. Although there was Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka (DBP), but knowing writers, they each have their own mind. So, if I was not mistaken, it was Yahya Ismail who was then teaching at Universiti Sains Malaysia (USIM) in the field of Malaysian and Indonesian Literature. So he and Abdullah Hussain shared together to launch the book business.

Abdullah Hussain was recommended to write Kuala Lumpur Kita Punya and cite incidents taking place in Kuala Lumpur. So it was a bit erotic. The intention was to showcase as close to reality what was happening aside from erotica being used to lure more readers. It worked and the book became a bestseller. But it could not develop as they hoped for, which were to grow an institution. Aside from that, the works about Kuala Lumpur hovers around poetry reading, drama, and meeting places for activities. From one side, modern writers met in cafes. There was once a cafe in Bangkok Bank, which has now become historical. Back tothen, it was in the 1960s.

I came here (Kuala Lumpur) in 1957 and worked with Utusan Melayu. Utusan Melayu then striked and I got out and then worked with Berita Harian for thirty years.


LiteraCity:
 Certainly you can see the transition of what happened during those times, right?


A. Samad Said: 
There were two literary activities, one was the National Writer’s Association (PENA) and it began first to accelerate literary activities and guidance by conducting dialogues among literary writers. After that, the Federation of National Writers Associations of Malaysia (GAPENA) was formed, where it was mostly dominated by lecturers. So indirectly, it was an academic organization where you could not see any literary writers behind it.

There were numerous meetings in 1960s and 1970s. Then, the task was taken over by DBP through programs such as seminars, lectures, poetry readings and book critiques.


LiteraCity: 
Through our readings and research, there are several locations described in some of your works such as ‘Jambatan Gesel’ and ‘Benteng’ mentioned.


A. Samad Said: 
That was in Kampung Baru. Back to then, I just came to Kuala Lumpur. It was named “Jambatan Gesel” because it’s a narrow bridge and during the weekend, many people would come for the opportunity to “rub” (with each other). It was the place to “fish” and everyone knew whoever came there it was for that purpose. I also joined in! Additionally, there is also “Pasar Minggu” in Kampung Baru, where it was a place to meet and buy and sell.


LiteraCity:
 There are some of your works describing about such places. Some were included in Balada Peta Yang Hilang (1990).


A. Samad Said:
 Of course I wrote places I am familiar with, but back then I had very little political awareness. I do not know what it means to be political where I was in my own imagination. However, the awareness of literature back then was to record life that can give moral teachings. We write not only for the pleasure of the reader but there must be elements to “persuade” the people to read into the lives of others. In a story we can write about anything and everyday life is one of them, where we can render and compose as we like and as we infuse our own messages. A work cannot just capture only reality itself. It must be mixed (with other elements) because at the time, we just earned our independence and the role of a writer is to guide and as a messenger to the people.

At the time, the level of creativity was absent because most writers read and write on their own. I was lucky because I learn it in school in Singapore. I read profusely Malay and Indonesian books and met uniquely individual artists. All this made me more mature.


LiteraCity: 
In this case, we are also keen to find out more, where we think of you as an author of the city, living in the city. What do you think of Kuala Lumpur through your works?


A. Samad Said: 
I was mischievous. Mischievous, means where I would go “Belakang Mati”, close to the Malaysian Mansion. It’s a place for prostitutes. In Singapore, I also lived in the same area. It was not what I asked, but my life happened so. So, here I still long for my hometown. So when the opportunity arose, I would go to “Belakang Mati”. Talk to the prostitutes and looking around. At that time, there was a saying, back then if people come from all over Malaysia, they will go there. There is another - small hotels in Jalan Tuanku Abdul Rahman which provide entertainment for visitors. As I said earlier, it happened at “Pasar Minggu” and “Jambatan Gesel.” If the drama script for Di Mana Bulan Selalu Retak (1965) is read, it was about those places. It is the background that I borrow from even though it actually happened in Singapore. As writers, we will borrow from any background. What’s most important is the story and message is transmitted.


LiteraCity: 
We are also interested in your poem titled “Elarti”; it feels very “urban” and we understand that you are a frequent user of this transport.


A. Samad Said: 
The poem is included in the anthology series for children. This anthology is requested by parents to read it to their children. This poem begins with A, B, C and subsequently through the life in the city. The title is called Rindu Ibu (2004).


LiteraCity:
 There are several other your works such as the Balada Peta Yang Hilang poetry collection with poems such as “Janda Setinggan” dan “Jamban Setinggan” among them.


A. Samad Said:
 Most of the events happened in Singapore. I mostly lived in Rangoon Road. So, we lived in a large hangar where it is divided into (living) cubicles. At the back, there was a sort of bush where the toilet was built, and there, we were used to seeing maggots. Every time we entered the toilet, we saw maggots. Actually, back then there was only one toilet but in the poem there was written as two to produce a dialogue (between its users). So the background was from Singapore, but it written as happening in Kuala Lumpur. Even so, it must be understood that writers have their own devices to use from borrowed backgrounds.

A writer plays with his own mind. He borrows from what he sees and experiences, and raises from them something new. But what’s important is what is conveyed. In a drama, it is easier to capture that because it appears in dialogue.


LiteraCity:
 Looking at your experience growing up in both cities, Singapore and Kuala Lumpur, can you tell us your observations of both cities?


A. Samad Said: 
I grew up in Singapore and began my teenage years in Kuala Lumpur. At first I was scared. I had been there twice, in 1956 before the Independence, working under Ahmad Boestamam in the weekly paper. It was then that I ‘explored’ the back alleys of Belakang Mati. I was mischievous. The second time I came, I was already a journalist and a bit more “polite”. I started working with the late Said Zahari but it was not long, for only more than a month in Utusan because there were differences in attitude. So I moved to Berita Harian under A. Samad Ismail.


LiteraCity:
 Do you see any transition in our writers in capturing the essence of living in the city through literature in Singapore and Kuala Lumpur?


A. Samad Said:
 At the time in Singapore, there was Kumbang Emas, Masuri S.N., Suratman Markasan, and Aliman who were still writing. The ones who came to Kuala Lumpur were Usman Awang and Keris Mas. They were the ones who came and wrote of the city. At the time, Singapore did not feel as the one we now know of. Singapore was a place to find livelihood and it also happened to be centre of newspaper publishing.


LiteraCity:
 How (do you think) literature can build a collective memory of the city itself through the works written?


A. Samad Said:
 At the time, I was not aware that what I wrote would be proof of a time or situation, as a record. When (I was) writing it, we must realize that the modern Malay literature was very young. Perhaps those educated in English aside from myself is Hamzah Hussin. After that, there were younger groups educated in Universiti Pendidikan Sultan Idris (UPSI) and in the Malay Studies Department in Universiti Malaya. Only then did the growth (of modern Malay literature) become larger.

However, during my time, the writer is first a journalist. This is because the only medium of writing is through newspapers and most journalists became writers because they wrote in newspapers. Becoming a journalist makes it easier to reflect on events and meet people. From there, we shape it into drama, short stories, or poems and we insert our thoughts, opinions and messages.


LiteraCity:
 This is parallel with our research that the probability of someone becoming a writer is higher if he is a journalist. For example, in many writings of the late A. Samad Ismail, we can clearly see the actual place and time experienced by his characters.


A. Samad Said:
 Looking back at A. Samad Ismail, perhaps he was more mature than I am, while Usman Awang was in between. A. Samad Ismail was a politician so his works tend to portray his political aspirations. Usman Awang has his own imagination and ambitions. As for myself, I am an honest child who will speak my hatred towards a situation. At the time, realism was new and we took up every situation as if a photograph. This was why Professor A. Teeuw stated that ASAS 50 were photographers. So we would write as if we are photographing a situation. It was an early stage and literature was very young.


LiteraCity:
 You yourself are a writer that places importance on background.


A. Samad Said: 
Yes, backgrounds can sometime become very real because we are living in the decade. So the things that surround us go into our works. At the time, we cannot realize the significance of something. Only when it becomes the past, that we realized that we had recorded life at a certain decade. For example, in Sungai Mengalir Lesu (1967), I wrote about the Japanese occupation. I didn’t know back then and wrote it because it was related to my suffering. Now, it is not only accepted as a work of literature but as a historical text and documentation. People want to know. It was because of Sungai Mengalir Lesu that China invited me there. It was a work that depicted the Chinese victims by the Japanese occupation in Singapore and elsewhere.


LiteraCity:
 Listening to what you said just now, places like “Jambatan Gesel”, “Benteng”, “Belakang Mati” are based in Kuala Lumpur. These places will never be a dominant place in history, marginalised except through works of literature. These places will never be made into tourist attractions, for example.


A. Samad Said:
 That actually depends, because we do realize the importance of history. For example, recently in Kedah, there were people who want to destroy the temple (candi). They think of merely development but they forget that it is important historical evidence. It is as if we are eroding our own civilisation (when we destroy the temple). It is also the same for those in power to erase certain historical implications. For example, Singapore for its Kampong Gelam Palace where it was erased. But history has its own way of speaking out.

Once, one of our leaders wanted to move Universiti Malaya in Bangsar. He said he wanted to develop the area. This is the thing that they fail to remember - University Malaya is the first university and has its own historical value, which is far more important than development itself. Unfortunately, the same thing happened in a few historical villages in Kuala Lumpur. I told the villagers when I joined the demonstration that they have to prepare to lose, like what happened to Kampung Abdullah Hukum and Kerinchi in Bangsar. But that is nature of development; some things have to be sidelined.

There must be signs of respect (to the heritage land) because we are just passers-by and feel as if we have done no wrong. Remember, the cities and villages have their own spirit and we simply do not care sometimes.

LiteraCity:
 Looking at your writing career from the 1950s until present, are there any movements or trend in the works written now?


A. Samad Said: 
Of course there is. For example, the young (writers) these days are more vocal in their works. These things are made easier. For example, we used to have the ASAS 50 organisation, where we had an idea and a vision so we followed just that. This is not only seen in the young (writers), but because of the current situation. (But) there must be writers recording with such seriousness without thinking that people will read it. Art, civilisation and culture must be created with beauty and for eternity. However, what is happening now is as if we entertain reading. Whatever that the young people like to read, we write for them. It will show a new world, but to beat as a single drum is a waste. We can always depict the crumbling of society beautifully.


LiteraCity:
 There were many events happening in Kuala Lumpur. From the 13th May 1969 riot to the great flood in the 1970s. Are they captured in any form of literature?


A. Samad Said:
 Of course they exist, especially when university students become writers. Because of their education, they have academic roots, history and its awareness. So literature will rise. Literature no longer came from journalists. The era was different, and now we are surrounded by a more intellectual world. There are also challenges through television, radio and social media. So art must build its own strength and everlastingness.


LiteraCity:
 Apart from that, it was the literature movement that captured several social and cultural issues and happenings in Malaysia, if not Kuala Lumpur specifically.


A. Samad Said:
 This is usually formed by the competitions organised. The government can forms them by organizing competitions and prizes. A writer, like any other person, needs money. So they have to oblige to that basic need. That kind of literature can be good but it is not true literature because we write for the prizes themselves.

I say this because it happened to me as well. I wrote my first novel, Salina because it was a competition. Its theme that year was it wanted writers to write about national unity. And Salina rejects that idea and portrays the reality that I experienced. The novel was rejected in the beginning because the judges were scared and made an appreciation prize for me. It was clear that what I did was right; literature cannot be framed and ordered except if the writers wanted money. It happens!


LiteraCity: 
The 1970s was a time enjoyed by everyone from different races. For example, some of Usman Awang’s works were translated and read widely by other races. How did this happen and how does it affect the National Culture Policy?


A. Samad Said:
 It was what the government wanted, to have only one nation and normally it is through education policies. But it cannot be the only way. It merely gives a platform, but it is life that decides it. The platform is there but if we are forced to write literature on Islam, for example, but society wants read erotica, the platform will fail because it doesn’t follow the demand. The exception is when the one writing is truly an individual writer and wants to bring true literature.